Talk:Palmarian Catholic Church

Dress code

I was a member os this church, they had some very strict rules. Women were not allowed to wear trousers,they had to wear skirts below the knees. men had to wear trousers,then someone complaind that jeans were to tight, so jeans were banned. you all had to wear long sleaves. you were banned from goin swimming and going to the beach. You were not allowed to used contraception. If you were in a violent relationship the priets would persuad you to stay with your partner. You were made to tell your children that father christmas was not real. You were not allowed to let your children listen to music as it poisoned their minds. You were banned from walking in any other church grounds or graveyards, and were not allowed to take part in religious education as school. The religion was quite brain washing.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Wilkie123 (talk • contribs) 20:52, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Some of this is to be expected. Marian devotees are usually pretty strict on dress, contraception, staying in abusive marriages to try to work it out, and what kind of music you could listen to. That's why I quit the sodality I was involved with in college. --Bluejay Young (talk) 21:16, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

I was a member as a young child. Im so greatful that my mother desided to leave. I was bullied at school for being the 'weird' kid, who wore skirts, couldnt go swimming etc. And as i used to have to sit out during Religious education classes a lot of the other teachers thought it was because i was a 'Bad' child.

It was very brain washing. I remember the excitement i felt when my mum told me we were leaving the church! She went out and bought me My 1st pair of jeans and a swimming costume! I was over the moon. I ran round to all my friends houses to show them my new clothes.

That day was probly the best day of my life as i no longer wore skirts in my gym class. I GOT SHORTS :D —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.40.132.242 (talk) 01:26, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

WP:Not a forum. What has this to do with editing the Article? The Mysterious El Willstro (talk) 04:09, 11 April 2012 (UTC)

Eating clay-like paste

When I stayed with a family who followed this religion (in the 1980s) one of their customs was to eat some form of light-coloured paste or clay-like pate with meals. They even offered it to me but I refused as it seemed distinctly mineral in nature rather than animal or vegetable - it certainly was not food in any ordinary sense. I think it might have just been the local soil/stone ground up but the PCC followers obviously thought it had some religious powers or significance. What, one wonders? Also, as regards who the followers were, many of them had come from overseas: France, Portugal, UK and elsewhere. Can anyone elaborate on these points to expand the article? AnotherPath (talk) 13:52, 25 October 2013 (UTC)

There is an article about geophagia, but I never heard it related to this church. --Error (talk) 14:49, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

Connections

Probably the most famous person associated with the Palmarian „movement“ ist singer Sinéad O'Connor (via the Michael Cox (Clergyman) fraction). None of that appears in this article, though. Does anyone know of a good source? --AndreasPraefcke 07:08, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Bishop Michael Cox

Bishop Michael Cox of the Irish Orthodox Catholic and Apostolic Church, who ordained Sinead O'Connor as priest, claims valid orders through the Palmarian Catholic Church. Is it true? Was he in communion with the PCC when he ordained her? --Richardson mcphillips (talk) 00:53, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

Cult

A 2011 TV3, Dublin, exposé described it as a cult which "forbids its members from even speaking to non-Palmarians." According to Magnus Lundberg, it "has been described as a manipulative sect, based on the unquestionable authority of the leaders and an increasing separation from the world outside the church." Lundberg wrote that "some researchers" have "looked upon the Palmarians as a dangerous sect" in which "abuse was common."

References

I am parking this here because I am not sure how much to include and remain neutral. After watching the video segments and seeing photos of the compound perimeter that includes a high wall with concertina wire along with a guard dog run,[1][2] I think the cult aspect should be included in the article after more sources are found. –BoBoMisiu (talk) 22:43, 15 April 2016 (UTC)

Adding/Removing content

This page was built by people who either have incorrect information choose to have selected information. The Holy Apostolic Palmarian Church Wishes nothing to do with the content on this page and views it as incorrect. The information on here has led to harassment of the members of this church and from now on will not be tolerated. The content on this page that declares this church to be a sect/cult is not correct and should be removed, immediately. — Preceding unsigned comment added by PatrickWalsh (talk • contribs) 00:59, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

@PatrickWalsh: The description as a cult is based on a TV3 documentary. In what ways are you asserting their research is faulty? We do not remove content from pages because it makes the subject look bad; WP:NPOV actually encourages making sure we look at the subject from all angles. —C.Fred (talk) 01:02, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

On looking further, I see your concern with the current version of the page. Although the TV3 documentary is mentioned here on the talk page, it's not mentioned on the article. —C.Fred (talk) 01:05, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

@c.fred, yes this is a concern. The TV3 documentary was done without any corresponding with current members of the church. Everything is done from the outside looking in. — Preceding unsigned comment added by PatrickWalsh (talk • contribs) 01:35, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

Another notion, the mention of sects and cults on this page is incorrect according to gotQuestion.com "Steven Hassan singles out what he refers to as “destructive cults,” which he defines as “a pyramid-shaped authoritarian regime with a person or group of people that have dictatorial control. It uses deception in recruiting new members (e.g. people are NOT told up front what the group is, what the group actually believes and what will be expected of them if they become members).” Hassan also correctly points out that cults are not only religious; they may also be commercial or secular in nature." This is not the case in Palmar. Members and new members are told up front what the church expects and believes and the members have their own free will. They can leave when they so choose. By singling out norms that the Palmarians abide by as describing them as a cult is incorrect. PatrickWalsh (talk) 03:19, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

References

"Popular References"

Should there be a "popular references" section or something here? The only thing that I know of that would be there is Dan Brown's new book Origin - which is a (very) negative reference, but I'm sure there are others. Jimw338 (talk) 18:24, 31 October 2017 (UTC)

keeping on task

This is a departure from traditional Catholic doctrine, which identifies the papacy with the bishop of Rome. Roman Catholic teaching also holds that personal revelations are not binding on the Church as a whole. The point of the article is not to establish whether the PCC is in agreement with the RCC or about the validity of PCC ideology, but to talk about the PCC. I think the sentences quoted above should be deleted.--Richardson mcphillips (talk) 23:55, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

Redundant prose.

There's a lot of repetition in the article with the same points appearing in multiple paragraphs. Robin S. Taylor (talk) 01:05, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion:

• Manuel Alonso Corral (Pole Peter II).jpg
• Pope Gregory XVII of Palmarian Catholic Church.jpg
• Pope Gregory XVIII.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 22:22, 8 May 2022 (UTC)

Name

This 2019 tweet from the alleged official Twitter account of the organisation suggests the group was officially called "Palmarian Catholic Church" in 2019. In contrast, the "Who are we?" section of their official website states (and stated as of December 2018): "3. The true Church of Christ is also called 'Palmarian Christian Church of the Carmelites of the Holy Face', or 'Palmarian Christian Church', or 'Palmarian Church'; since in essence this is exactly the same as saying 'the Church, One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic and Palmarian.' ". Magnus Lundberg also uses the expression "Palmarian Catholic Church" in his academically-published book on the topic. Veverve (talk) 00:57, 9 May 2022 (UTC)

"Generally accept the conventional succession"?

Under "Palmarian popes" it says that "Palmarian Christians generally accept the conventional succession of Catholic popes up to Paul VI (r. 1963–1978)". Does the "generally" suggest that they reject some conventional popes prior to Paul VI as illegitimate as well, or that certain Palmarian Christians do? If so, it should be clarified which popes this refers to and if not the "generally" should be removed. Mosasauroides (talk) 11:41, 23 January 2023 (UTC)

@Mosasauroides: there is a complete PDF book in the 'Further reading' section. Maybe you can find an answer in it. Veverve (talk) 20:15, 24 January 2023 (UTC)

This is a cult and not a Christian Church.

That's it. Calling this Christianity is taking the perspective of the cult leaders and not a neutral view point. Typical Wikipedia though. Probably have the leaders watching the page. 38.52.40.55 (talk) 15:15, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

if it is true that some unethical practices are occurring within the church it might be helpful to include a section on it, but describing it in the first section as a cult is a bad idea Gaismagorm (talk) 15:21, 20 March 2024 (UTC)